Comments for Wading through life http://blog.joelmaust.com The season of wading is over; now's the time for full immersion Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:51:28 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 Comment on Why I’m Siding With Pat Robertson on This One by Shery http://blog.joelmaust.com/2010/01/why-i%e2%80%99m-siding-with-pat-robertson-on-this-one.html/comment-page-1#comment-20225 Shery Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:51:28 +0000 http://blog.joelmaust.com/?p=790#comment-20225 My opinion of Pat Robertson's comment - yes, the spiritual darkness of Haiti opens doors for poverty, lack and destruction. A statistic I heard is that 85% of Haitians are catholic, but 90% participate in voodoo. However, in Pat's seat, it's not appropriate to say what he said without giving the entire context like you did. The gods of this age have blinded the world, so they will think all Christians are crazy - it strengthens the divide. Many American Christians reject the reality of the supernatural, so it wasn't helpful to them either. My opinion of Pat Robertson’s comment – yes, the spiritual darkness of Haiti opens doors for poverty, lack and destruction. A statistic I heard is that 85% of Haitians are catholic, but 90% participate in voodoo.

However, in Pat’s seat, it’s not appropriate to say what he said without giving the entire context like you did. The gods of this age have blinded the world, so they will think all Christians are crazy – it strengthens the divide. Many American Christians reject the reality of the supernatural, so it wasn’t helpful to them either.

]]> Comment on Why I’m Siding With Pat Robertson on This One by John http://blog.joelmaust.com/2010/01/why-i%e2%80%99m-siding-with-pat-robertson-on-this-one.html/comment-page-1#comment-20196 John Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:58:39 +0000 http://blog.joelmaust.com/?p=790#comment-20196 Joel, I can't say that I understand what you're saying. I can understand that more "bad things" will happen when there are more bad people around, when one defines "bad things" as things people do to each other. But I don't understand it with regard to what we call "natural disasters." If the majority of "natural disasters" are simply natural, isn't labeling a particular one as devil-caused (or God-caused) assuming knowledge that we don't have? Saying this particular disaster was just natural, but this one was caused by God or the devil, seems to me to be more of a reflection on the speaker's own attitude towards the victims than anything else. Joel,
I can’t say that I understand what you’re saying. I can understand that more “bad things” will happen when there are more bad people around, when one defines “bad things” as things people do to each other. But I don’t understand it with regard to what we call “natural disasters.” If the majority of “natural disasters” are simply natural, isn’t labeling a particular one as devil-caused (or God-caused) assuming knowledge that we don’t have? Saying this particular disaster was just natural, but this one was caused by God or the devil, seems to me to be more of a reflection on the speaker’s own attitude towards the victims than anything else.

]]> Comment on Why I’m Siding With Pat Robertson on This One by Joel http://blog.joelmaust.com/2010/01/why-i%e2%80%99m-siding-with-pat-robertson-on-this-one.html/comment-page-1#comment-20191 Joel Sat, 16 Jan 2010 08:06:50 +0000 http://blog.joelmaust.com/?p=790#comment-20191 Hi Uncle John -- Thanks for stopping by :) Certainly no argument necessary. Given our divergent spiritual beliefs, my explanation might not make much sense. But I can try. First of all, I by no means believe God himself initiated and brought on this tragedy. I apologize if I came across that way. When I said "So I can see how this pact could still be holding many innocent people’s lives under the devastating burden of the curse. It makes me sick. The devil is putrid and vile." I was trying to point out that I thought the devil was responsible. In saying the "pact with the devil" led to this, it's easy to assume the person was suggesting God was mad with the pact and thus responded with the quake. But that's not how I view it. I believe pockets of people (primarily countries, states, cities and families) can come under the oppression of supernatural forces of evil. The Bible refers to Satan as "The Prince of the Power of the Air" and from that place of influence on our earth, he directs regional powers, thrones, principalities and dominions. Paul mentions them often in his writings (Eph. 1:21 and 6:12, Col 1:16 and 2:15) and we see in Daniel 10:10-14 that an angelic messenger had to fight off a regional power (The "Prince of Persia") before he could get Daniel his message from God. These spiritual powers (there are both good and evil ones) have a very real affect on the areas they reside over. Areas can be more blessed than others and areas can be more cursed than others. The presence and influence of these forces can being either cultivated or banished from an area depending on the way people choose to live their lives. Righteous living and right-standing with God will push back dark forces and call in heavenly ones. And vice versa. Since Haiti cultivated dark spiritual forces from the get-go and still has a majority of its citizens practicing voodoo (which I believe is a very real and very dark spiritual practice) the demonic, oppressive forces seem to still be around. Their presence appears to have been cultivated this whole time, based on the chronic struggles the nation continues to have with poverty, civil unrest, disease, etc. We see in Job 1 that the devil is fully capable of causing natural disasters. I believe it's possible he did so in this case. He loves to kill people, plain and simple. As I said in my blog, when people align themselves with the enemy, they become all the more accessible to his demented ways. I certainly don't believe all natural disasters are the devil's doing. I would say the majority are simply... natural. And you're right in that rain falls on both the wicked and the righteous. No one is completely immune from the fact that we simply live in a fallen world and bad things happen to innocent people as a result. I hope all that made some sense to you. Feel free to ask more questions if new ones have now emerged. Hi Uncle John — Thanks for stopping by :) Certainly no argument necessary. Given our divergent spiritual beliefs, my explanation might not make much sense. But I can try.

First of all, I by no means believe God himself initiated and brought on this tragedy. I apologize if I came across that way. When I said “So I can see how this pact could still be holding many innocent people’s lives under the devastating burden of the curse. It makes me sick. The devil is putrid and vile.” I was trying to point out that I thought the devil was responsible. In saying the “pact with the devil” led to this, it’s easy to assume the person was suggesting God was mad with the pact and thus responded with the quake. But that’s not how I view it.

I believe pockets of people (primarily countries, states, cities and families) can come under the oppression of supernatural forces of evil. The Bible refers to Satan as “The Prince of the Power of the Air” and from that place of influence on our earth, he directs regional powers, thrones, principalities and dominions. Paul mentions them often in his writings (Eph. 1:21 and 6:12, Col 1:16 and 2:15) and we see in Daniel 10:10-14 that an angelic messenger had to fight off a regional power (The “Prince of Persia”) before he could get Daniel his message from God.

These spiritual powers (there are both good and evil ones) have a very real affect on the areas they reside over. Areas can be more blessed than others and areas can be more cursed than others. The presence and influence of these forces can being either cultivated or banished from an area depending on the way people choose to live their lives. Righteous living and right-standing with God will push back dark forces and call in heavenly ones. And vice versa.

Since Haiti cultivated dark spiritual forces from the get-go and still has a majority of its citizens practicing voodoo (which I believe is a very real and very dark spiritual practice) the demonic, oppressive forces seem to still be around. Their presence appears to have been cultivated this whole time, based on the chronic struggles the nation continues to have with poverty, civil unrest, disease, etc.

We see in Job 1 that the devil is fully capable of causing natural disasters. I believe it’s possible he did so in this case. He loves to kill people, plain and simple. As I said in my blog, when people align themselves with the enemy, they become all the more accessible to his demented ways.

I certainly don’t believe all natural disasters are the devil’s doing. I would say the majority are simply… natural. And you’re right in that rain falls on both the wicked and the righteous. No one is completely immune from the fact that we simply live in a fallen world and bad things happen to innocent people as a result.

I hope all that made some sense to you. Feel free to ask more questions if new ones have now emerged.

]]> Comment on Why I’m Siding With Pat Robertson on This One by John http://blog.joelmaust.com/2010/01/why-i%e2%80%99m-siding-with-pat-robertson-on-this-one.html/comment-page-1#comment-20185 John Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:23:20 +0000 http://blog.joelmaust.com/?p=790#comment-20185 Joel, I don't want to argue with you, but I am trying to understand your theology. Are you saying that this pact with the devil, if one was made, by some of the original slaves rebelling against French rule, has descended through their blood to curse current Haitians, even the 40 percent who are now Protestant Christians? If so, that would be a worse curse than the original sin in the Garden of Eden. While most Protestant Christians believe that in Adam and Eve's sin, mankind was cursed with having a sinful nature, I don't know of any groups that believe that has anything to do with natural disasters. It would be difficult, if not impossible, empirically to make that case since we know that disasters occur equally on Christians and non-Christians alike. In fact, the Bible says the rain falls on the just and the unjust. If God sent the most recent earthquake to Haiti to punish Haitians for their ancestors' pact with the devil, then for what reason do natural disasters hit countries whose founders did not make a pact with the devil, for example the United States, which is supposed to be one of God's favored countries? Joel, I don’t want to argue with you, but I am trying to understand your theology. Are you saying that this pact with the devil, if one was made, by some of the original slaves rebelling against French rule, has descended through their blood to curse current Haitians, even the 40 percent who are now Protestant Christians? If so, that would be a worse curse than the original sin in the Garden of Eden. While most Protestant Christians believe that in Adam and Eve’s sin, mankind was cursed with having a sinful nature, I don’t know of any groups that believe that has anything to do with natural disasters. It would be difficult, if not impossible, empirically to make that case since we know that disasters occur equally on Christians and non-Christians alike. In fact, the Bible says the rain falls on the just and the unjust. If God sent the most recent earthquake to Haiti to punish Haitians for their ancestors’ pact with the devil, then for what reason do natural disasters hit countries whose founders did not make a pact with the devil, for example the United States, which is supposed to be one of God’s favored countries?

]]> Comment on Why I’m Siding With Pat Robertson on This One by Ben Bonk http://blog.joelmaust.com/2010/01/why-i%e2%80%99m-siding-with-pat-robertson-on-this-one.html/comment-page-1#comment-20177 Ben Bonk Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:14:00 +0000 http://blog.joelmaust.com/?p=790#comment-20177 Good Stuff Joel. I do agree with you and I am glad you laid this out for people. Good Stuff Joel. I do agree with you and I am glad you laid this out for people.

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